Wednesday, 26 May 2010

Force Organization Chart - Bryss' Response Part 1


http://6inchmove.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/warhammer-40000-foc.jpg
Article by Master Bryss

This article is a response to Force Organisation Chart- The Theme Killer. Here I will explore aalternate method of building an army.

I will present to you two different means of creating an army over a period of time. The first one, the ‘Sandbox’ method, is based on my original comments on the article. The second, the ‘Fixed Theme’ method, is an alternate option designed as a second option to using the Sandbox (so both would be in the same Codex). First off, the Sandbox.

For each method I will use Space Marines as an example. Note that these methods may work better for some Codices more than others.

“Sandbox” Army- Space Marines

In your army you must include a HQ choice and at least two Scoring Units. Armies may include:
·        1-3 HQ units
·        0-4 Elites
·        0-8 Troops
·        0-4 Fast Attack
·        0-4 Heavy Support

A Space Marines army will always have access to the following units:

·        Captain (may not take Terminator armour)
·        Command Squad
·        Tactical Squad (Scoring unit)
·        Rhino
·        Razorback
·        Assault Squad
·        Devastator Squad

You may now spend up to 15 Option Points (OP) on anything in the following list (all may be taken multiple times):

·        Allow access to Drop Pods...1 point

·        Allow access to Chaplains...1 point
·        Allow access to Librarians...1 point
·        Allow access to Chapter Masters and Honour Guard...1 point
·        Allow access to First Company units (Terminators of both types, Veterans of both types) and Terminator armour wargear...5 points
o       Allow a single Elites unit type to be Scoring...6 points
·        Allow access to Dreadnoughts of all types...2 points
o       Allow Venerable Dreadnoughts to be a HQ choice...2 points
·        Allow access to Legion of the Damned...2 points
·        Allow access to Techmarines, Servitors and Master of the Forge...2 points

·        Allow access to Scouts (Scoring unit)...1 point
o       Allow access to Telion...free

·        Allow access to Bikes of both types...1 point
·        Allow access to Land Speeders of all types...1 point
o       Allow a single non-vehicle Fast Attack unit to be Scoring...3 points

·        Allow Devastators to be Scoring...3 points
·        Allow access to Predators, Whirlwinds, Vindicators...2 point2 each
·        Allow access to Thunderfire Cannon...1 point (free if Techmarines already bought)
·        Allow access to Land Raiders of all types...4 points
·        Allow Land Raiders to be Dedicated Transports...3 points
·        Take Chronus...free

·        Take a single Named HQ Character...2 points
·        Exchange Combat Tactics for any Chapter Tactics...2 points


Have I missed anything?

To clarify, if you purchase an option saying ‘single unit type be Scoring’, that means all your Sternguard or all your Scout Bikers become so, not just one unit.

The main draw of this list is that you no longer need Troops, merely Scoring units. Troops are still useful in that they come with the power of Scoring at the start and are still cheap and plentiful units, but they are not necessary. Of course, you could respond with “Yeah, great, but now, no-one will even bother with Troops.” Fair point, but I’d like to see you build an Ork army with no Boyz. It just makes sense that you have them, they’re a main pull factor of the army! Plus, the chart has been expanded to make slightly larger armies, so if you wish you can take more of them!




Let's have some help from the community on this one. Internal balancing is difficult so let's have some opinions on the points costing as it appears above.

17 comments:

Atrotos said...

The best part about this method is that it can be installed with just a core rulebook change. While the FOC itself would remain unchanged the point system could be adapted independently.

This could work, honestly but I would charge more for an important change such as making an Elite unit *type* scoring. As always, TH/SS Terminators must be the defining factor here. As posted here you could have 40 scoring TH/SS for just 9 FOC points. On the other hand Nob Bikers are already scoring so maybe its just a matter of perspective.

tomek said...

and aditional 4 to get transport for them and 2 for dreads and u get deathwing with only one HQ option or with 3 HQ options and no dreads.

Mandatory scorings are good because it obligate to take troops or put some OP for enable scoring rule to something

Herald of Nurgle said...

I think so much more could be done with this system. It totally destroys any need for having 4+ SM Codexes (except largely changed armies such as Space Wolves) as you can add 'for +5pts take Death Company', and you could just have the normal mandatory chart and spend points on changing the numbers of each type you can take.

LOVE it.

Bring me CSM next :P

Atrotos said...

But how the hell do you play against 40 scoring TH/SS Terminators? Who has the firepower to take them all out?

Atrotos said...

I agree. Bryss really nailed it with this one.

Master_Bryss said...

I'm glad this got a potitive response, I'm quite proud of it.

Herald, I didn't think that I could do that but it would be a very worthwhile idea. I can't do it myself though as I use my own Chapter or the vanilla Codex.

40 TH/SS Termies works out at 1600 points. I'm a firm believer of the 'bring as much firepower as possible' approach. They WILL die if you shoot them enough. See my BoLS blog for why.

I wasn't sure about 9OP either, so increasing Elites As Scoring to 5 or 6 points would be fine by me.

The next part of the article could be hit-and-miss, I warn you now.

Atrotos said...

40 scoring Devastators is harsh too (though again it's a huge chunk of points).

The balance will depend on how other codecies are arranged under this OP system.

Master_Bryss said...

After some thought, I also think that Scoring Devastors need an increase. Put Scoring Elites to 6 OP and Scoring Devastators to 3 OP for now.

abusepuppy said...

Hmm, doesn't seem super-breakable, but "good" armies don't even need the full 15. Take 1st Company, making Termies or Sternguard scoring, take Speeders and Predators, Land Raiders if you want them... you've still got a couple points left over and you're already better than basic codex Marines.

Atrotos said...

You would need the full 15 if you wanted to make really odd combos with options that Bryss hasn't included. For instance you could imagine a player that wanted to include Termies, Thunderwolf cavalry, Scoring Assault Squads and Sanquinary Priests would need more than just 15.

I'm also imagining package deals. Taking Belial might use all 15 points but give you 17 points worth of options for instance. (Scoring Termies of all types, Feerless, Deathwing Assault, etc.)

Master_Bryss said...

The second 'Fixed Theme' method is intended to work as a package deal, but I think it needs serious modification.

sandwyrm said...

The system reminds me of the old IG doctrines. It's cool, but too complex for an opponent to validate in a tourney.

How about trading unused FOC categories (such as Elites) for a single extra slot somewhere else? Or just having 2 categories instead of 5? Something like "scoring" and "special".

Master_Bryss said...

The reason it reminds you of that is because that's what it's based on, NOT Chapter Traits (grumble...Stelek...)

Having 2 categories really reminds me of Fantasy's current system, and I don't know how that works, so I won't do that.

Problem with slot trading is the dreaded Iron Warriors Syndrome. I never used the 3.5 Chaos Dex but even I can tell that it's worth it to swap a bit of Fast for another huge gun. Doing that could really change some Codicies, for example said Chaos player would readily give up his next-to-useless Fast Attack for another Obliterator squad.

sandwyrm said...

And a lot of Guard Players would readily give up their 3 Elite slots for one more Fast Attack or Heavy Support slot. I don't see a problem. :)

Master_Bryss said...

Yes, but it may lead to games dominated by Heavy Support, which is a bad idea.

Playing at smaller levels prevents you from using all those slots (up to 4 in my system) though due to cost. You may be able to legally have 12 Russes now, but you can't fit them all in at lower levels. You don't need an option for trading.

Chaos is done by the way! Expect it to debut in a few weeks.

Master_Bryss said...

Hmm... after some thought, should I increase the cost of Heavy Support vehicles to 2OP? I think I maybe should...

Atrotos said...

done.